As someone constantly exposed to the so-called “youth” of this country, I do believe I have some insight and some valid criticism of the recent ban on facebook, which, ostensibly, has to do with blasphemous content.
Firstly, what is the “youth” of this country? And why are they lumped into a monolithic entity? Why is it assumed that they are all one and the same when their realities are different in many ways. To assume that our “youth” is living air-conditioned lives, constantly logged on to the internet, chatting away etc. is purely delusional. The truth is, the vast majority of the “youth” are very poor and cannot access websites. The “youth” is actually the majority of our population. And we are constantly trying to box them into holes on what they should be, what they should do, how they should think, how they should behave, killing off any diversity that exists… this has lead to an increase in intolerance which I have noticed in my less than three decades of existence, despite the fact that sensitivity towards women’s issues has increased as compared to my generation (I’m only talking about educated people here though. I do acknowledge that the ground realities for women have become even more horrific). Sounds contradictory? It’s not. Read on. It’s all connected to religion and wanting to desperately prove that their religion is not barbaric towards women, a criticism that has very valid roots since, let’s face it, the status of women in the Muslim world is far from decent. So even though I see an increase in gender sensitivity, I also see an increase in linear thinking, mostly intolerant, reeking of a severe persecution complex (“the world is out to get us and destabilise Islam!”), which is very, very dangerous.
The “youth” have grown up in a post 9/11 world so they have little or no living memory of a time when the world wasn’t obsessed with us. I remember people scratching their heads, perplexed about where this Pakistani I speak of was. India was all they knew. And now… well… we’re everywhere, one of the most recognisable countries in the world, a hub of terrorism, a country on the forefront of the oxymoronic “war on terror”, perhaps on the verge of self-destruction, “the most dangerous country in the world”. Our grief has become the world’s entertainment. The world watches as we are bombed, killed, destroyed, humiliated and demonised. And sadly, it truly feels like no one cares. We all know, for sure, that our lives are worth less than any other lives, truly worthless. These kids have always known that. What’s worse is that as more and more innocent people die in their own country, these beliefs get strengthened. As the privileged ones travel the world, and are tortured at airports thanks to the colour of their skins and passports, they face humiliation which angers them for good reason. Why wouldn’t being called a “rag-head who will pray to his sand nigger god to destroy us” enrage someone? They have grown up in a country full of unrest and at war with itself. They have grown up in a world that constantly reminds them they are the “other” in every sense. They have grown up in a world where “Muslim” has become a synonym for “terrorist.” Imagine what it does to their psyche. Imagine growing up like that. It saddens me immensely because, as a teacher who is close to her students, I see the toll it takes on them. I see their anger and I sympathise with it. I don’t agree that this is a war on Islam per se since that is just too simplistic an explanation, but I do understand why they would feel this way.
As a teacher of critical thinking, I have a frustrating job. I love it because it is very rewarding, but teaching critical thinking to kids who have been taught NOT to think is quite challenging. They come to me with blinkers on. And, obviously, there is much resistance to thinking about multiple perspectives at first. The majority don’t want their worldview shaken. Most don’t want to hear that there is another valid perspective at first. It’s hard to digest and I know that because I remember the IB TOK classes which I model some of my classes on. It wasn’t easy. But then again, critical thinking is never easy, nor should it be. It should be constant tool used for one’s personal growth, and it is absolutely necessary in order to evolve and become tolerant. This is why I feel the recent ban on facebook is dangerous and promotes a culture of intolerance.
As a teacher who often jokes that her class should be called “How to Grow a Brain” I strongly believe that banning facebook sends out a counter-productive and frightening message. And no, this is not a slippery slope. This country suffers “The Ostrich Syndrome” and this ban is proof. We like to stick our heads in the sand, like kids sticking their fingers in their ears screaming “I can’t hear you! I can’t hear you!” I’d like to ask all those constantly wanting to censor this that or the other what kind of message they think they are sending out. Because this is how I see it: if you don’t like it, ban it. If you don’t agree, pretend it doesn’t exist. Everyone else is wrong anyway, since they’re all out to get us. There is no need for productive dialogue, there is no need to have a healthy discourse; heck there’s no need to turn the other cheek and ignore it. This is the message: stick your head in the sand until it’s over. Oh, but it’ll never be over since the world is out to get us.
And I ask you: why do I HAVE to be offended? Is our faith so weak that a cartoon will destroy it? And even if I am offended, why am I not being given the option to boycott facebook voluntarily? A voluntary ban would have been much, much more effective in order to send a message out. A blanket ban has only lead to exactly what we like to cry about so much: negative publicity in the world press and many outraged Pakistanis protesting the ban such as me. How conveniently we pick and choose from religion! Lest we forget, I would like to remind the Muslims reading this of the incident of the woman who used to throw garbage at our prophet. The prophet, in whose name we claim we are protesting, was a peaceful, cooperative man who forgave people who pelted him with garbage and rocks. Responding with an intelligent dialogue, responding with patience is, in my opinion, the best way to protest one’s concern. Think about it: why is this competition going on? Why are we responding in exactly the manner the world expects us to? Why are so hell bent on proving that we are not tolerant? Responding with anger, with outrage, will only strengthen Islamophobic beliefs, which will, by the way, make these Islamophobes happy since we are playing right into their hands and giving them the reaction they expect and probably want.
As for me, I am going to go change my “Restore Judiciary” shirt to “Restrain the Judiciary” adding the neglected article who absence has so peeved me since I first bought it during the lawyer’s movement. The fact that the courts are acting like tyrannical parents is something I strongly object to. The fact that they are entertaining demands by catering to the religious parties is abhorrent, especially since these religious parties are incapable of winning in democratic elections. I protest this ban on facebook and my objection to the competition doesn’t count since it’s not voluntary. Without the freedom to offend, free speech ceases to exist. And as someone who grew up in Zia’s oppressive regime, I know how dangerous it is to censor and ban things based on religious sentiments. Intolerant religious interpretations should not be immune to religion, nor should we allow religion to be used to promote intolerance. For those who have witnessed it, we do not wish to see it again.
I may not agree with the venom being spewed through the media, but I’d rather get multiple perspectives than just one, leaving me no choice but to think only the way I am apparently supposed to. And the fact that we let our media go ahead and spew this venom in the first place reeks of hypocrisy. While we think it’s perfectly all right to demonise the world, promoting intolerance and hatred for the West, creating Hindu-Zionism conspiracy theories, we strongly object when the world responds in kind. Again, I ask, why is it ok for us and not anyone else? Are we all meek little innocents? And again, what kind of message is this sending the “youth” we are oh so very concerned about? I’ll tell you what it leads to because I battle with it constantly. It leads to essays that are rants on how evil the world is, full of hate speech, and with absolutely no sensitivity to the other perspective. It has, like I said, lead to a persecution complex so strong that it’s very hard to break. It has lead to people like Faisal Shahzad. Now you tell me. Do we want more of him? Or more of those who are willing to debate peacefully instead of resorting to violence?Because at the rate we’re going, no one will need to bomb us into the stone ages. We’re going there ourselves.
I am woman, hear me roar 
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One thing, Nabiha – where in my post that you linked to did I reference Pakistan except vaguely (I mentioned Asia Minor as a whole) as a travel source, transfer point, or destination that should signal some extra security measures be applied to the traveler?
I ask because your post centered on Pakistan and Pakistanis, not on Muslims in general.
I thought it was an excellent example. You were talking about what to do to all Muslims, and that includes us. Secondly, this ban on facebook, in this context, is a “Muslim” issue on blasphemy. Right after that “bush monkey” incident, Pakistan was added to the list of people who absolutely must go through a full body scan for “security” purposes.
I think you were already on that list, Nabiha, though the scanners were just being installed at that point. Given Al-Qaeda and the Taliban it would have been odd for Pakistan not to have been the 1st or 2nd country on that list.
Oh no we were just being humiliated and tortured then. The body scans were made compulsory after that. It went from “random” checking (definition of random: Muslims, Brown people) to a list of countries that had to go through the scanner. Indeed, 170 million should be presumed to be guilty because terrorists reside in Pakistan. I like the logic. All terrorists are Muslims, therefore all Muslims are terrorists. Very sweet.
Well, Nabiha, there’s a distinct shortage of White Muslims, and, with the exception of a few failed-at-life women who came down with a variant of “jungle fever” that I’ve nicknamed “Jihadi Fever,” they’re not much of a problem physically – so it’s easy for people to play the race card and say we’re targeting “Brown People.”
True; not all Muslims are actively terrorists, but every Muslim could be one, the odds don’t seem that long against they’re being one these days, and most of the ones trying to attack the US these days have some sort of tie to Pakistan. Of course we apply greater security to travelers from Pakistan.
It’s not “declared” but Pakistan is essentially and functionally an enemy nation and countries do NOT allow free and unhindered travel to and from enemy nations.
This is a long debate. When people are treated as the scum of the earth just for existing, then they have reason to feel discontent and retaliate. I hate all forms of violence, but I do try and see why and how people would turn to terrorism. Many who were kidnapped as kids etc had no option. But there were many people, who after being unfairly picked up and tortured in the West, despite being innocent, felt a deep sense of rage and decided to become terrorists. So, no it didn’t happen in a vacuum. Muslims didn’t one day decide ok let’s kill everyone. The VAST majority of Muslims are peaceful people. The Wahabis, who the US bends over for, are very much involved in creating discontent. Terrorism is a direct result of Wahabism.
Enemy or ally… I don’t care for terms. So, then, why pour scholarships into this country? Why INVITE Pakistanis to come live with you for a few years? They give out the Fulbright here like candy. Why bother inviting delegations?
These justifications may seem fine to you, but as someone on the receiving end of this, I don’t think you will ever understand how painful it is. And the fact that you can so callously dismiss it further strengthens the argument that our lives are worth nothing. And I strongly object to “every Muslim could be a terrorist.” I’m deeply, deeply insulted. My mother and sister do not have it in them to be terrorists! What a horrible and callous thing to say. I don’t think I can even continue a discussion after that. But I’m glad this comment is up here. Here lies more proof that we are demonised and all of us are considered potential terrorists. Disgusting.
Q1. I thought you’re an atheist and don’t believe in The Creator? So why bother you’re self to discuss Muslims and their emotional or individualistic shortcomings etc? Now a days; whoever is a bit more on the ‘educated’ side right away questions their own origin/morality and existence of thy Lord after a couple of drinks or educational certificates? or after reading some best sellers on philosophy etc. It’s modren times dilemma.
Q2. And yes most importantly, what made you correlate faith and being offended with insulting images to one’s religion?
Faith has nothing to do with such obnoxious and third rated ‘initiative’ by individuals/cults or whomsoever as I would like to call it. Nobody’s faith is so weak that these images or any hate speech would shatter it as a matter of fact. It can only allure one to slit their throat open and let them bleed to death. I wish it was that simple or the ‘offended side’ was that strong. Had it been that strong; no sane individual/cult/group would have dared do that. That’s how the sanity is being maintained in the modern history.
It’s only about respect, dignity and co-existence. Shouldn’t there be enough roars if you can’t kick them to graves like the most infamous Heil Feuror did for the ‘Jew problem’? Or invade war on these ‘terrorist’ states of Europe? as US did on Afghan/Iraq and hopefully on Iran as well if they can afford it financially. If you think Moslims are barbaric then you have no eeeeffinnnn idea what the west is really made of. If you try to correlate religion on this dimension assuming you never read or saw (Times, Newsweek, CNN, BBC, Sky, Fox etc); you’d be shocked. But nobody can nowadays… since the masses have been so strongly ‘programmed’ in a structured way in last 2-3 decades using focused propaganda that now it’s impossible for an average person to comprehend what really going on around the globe and question oneself that what I know is really what is it like in reality?
Now less emotionally speaking and in a less aggressive way how about Moslim oil countries cutting oil lines to all non-moslim countries for a week as a protest? That would be interestingly amazing. And to top it; all Islamic countries should kick the consulates/embassies out of their capitals for 2 weeks? The (West) is no good to Moslim world any ways. Therefore, what maximum harm or penalties would be shoved upon Moslim world?
PS. Excuse my english as I’m not ‘one’. It’s my 4th language. (No pun intended!). My fair intention was and is to just introduce you to some newer and wider dimensions to ponder upon before jotting down newer and greater blogs.
I’m very confused… my identity is one of a Pakistani Muslim. My passport says, clearly, that my religion is Islam. No matter what I practice or don’t practice, to the world, I am a Muslim and will be treated as such, especially since my last name is, to top it off, Shaikh. Therefore, I have to right to discuss this for I am impacted by it.
“Faith” is a term we can debate to death. Yes, I know strong faith wouldn’t be shattered by images, which is why I pointed out how ridiculous it is.
Unfortunately, I can’t seem to understand the rest of what you’ve said… but I will say that Muslims countries banding together is a colossal joke. As much as we like to delude ourselves about Muslim “brotherhood”, it does not exist. Personally, I feel Saudi Arabia has been pivotal in the destruction of all liberal schools of thought and has lead to this dangerous Wahabi Islam we see everywhere. They don’t see us as brothers, or even poor cousins. They see us as low-lives they can exploit.
Lastly, I never said Muslims were barbaric. I would never say that. That is ridiculous. I find these demonisations insulting. Like I said, the “war on terror” is a complete and total oxymoron. I don’t consider anyone willing to invade and kill a country decent from any angle. I know one can’t “kill” an ideology and wars aggravate it. Look up how much vested interest the US has in the arms trade and then think about it. They NEED wars in order to sell arms. They manage to find all sorts of wonderfully flimsy excuses to start them and mercilessly kill of thousands of people as in Iraq, which was invaded based on weapons of mass destructions that were never found! It was all about oil… denying that would be hilarious. If you were watching the US media on the days before the invasion, they had started correlating 9/11 with Iraq! And people were buying it! So when the Americans turn to me and say I’m barbaric and uncivilized, I can’t help but think that, in that case, the definition of civilized means “one who believes lies blindly and supports killing innocents without questioning anything.” I’d rather be barbaric.
I truly second you in your later part of the reply.
Just one thing regarding faith. You can’t argue it any how since it has nothing to do with logic and they can’t go together. If I prove you 2+2=5 using some tricky equations, you won’t ‘believe’ it in the first place because if you do then you’d have to question billion other aspects, which you can’t afford to nor can anyone. Atheists base their argumentation only on logic, math, fallacies and absence of fallacies. Islam is not based on logic nor it’s principals were/are to be ‘logically proved’ to infidels to enter Islam.
What wahabism are you referring to? i.e. be specific about their version and principal which is against Islam? Honestly I really need to know??? I mean those practices which are against religion?
I strongly have a feeling you were unfortunately never taught and introduced Islam in its truest essence and most importantly ‘first-hand’. Just read the translation and explanations from the source and you’d certainly be astonished how easy and authentic it was to understand it direct from the SOURCE. Forget about who is doing what and why, that’s the only problem, when we (the one’s with little & decapitated information/knowledge about Islam from a 3rd hand source) see somebody doing certainly WRONG, we lable the whole religion as ‘rejected’. Why was that individual or a particular sect or group is your source of true knowledge? Absolutely Not. People say if you want to learn a religion, acquire it from its source, followers in every religion differ with each other and would eventually lead you off it with their own version of religion vis-a-vis their ‘taste’ and ‘comfort’. Once you are aware of the religion typed on your passport; then decide wheather you would carry on with it or not? Half knowledge is suicidal, believe me! it’s worse then ignorance.
Just remember there would be 72 sects on the day of resurrection. And only ONE, yes only one would be the one following the true and authentic path. So before you point your fingers to anyone, just teach yourself all over again so you can’t blame wrong practices and teaching to someone whilst you can equip yourself as good as they are within few months.
From religion’s point of few what ever is going on with Muslims globally is not a surprise. It was forecasted 1400 years ago by the Holy Prophet (PBUH) that before the final and eternal rise of Muslims they’d be weakened day by day to a point of no return.
Yes you’re right everyone’s now seems sold out and there is no ‘brotherhood’ left. Everyone’s greedy and self centered and it does not seems to be changing in near foreseeable future.
PS. I regret saying something offensive to you in this or my earlier post.
Accept my apologies in anticipation. Whatever I wrote or intended to communicate in or between the lines was merely for your interest.
I have read just about every translations of the Quraan, I have researched root words, I have immense knowledge of Muslim history and my own history. I DO know what wahabism is. I do know what Sufism, Sunni, Shia etc are and the difference between them. I”m not willing to debate my faith here. It is irrelevant. I read what I need to, and am totally aware of each and every thing you said. So thank you for your need to educate me, but there is no proper way, and it is offensive to hear that my parents and grandparents did a terrible job just because they didn’t agree with your point of view. I come from a very educated family and we are not ignorant fools with no knowledge of our religion. I live my life in line with Islamic principles interpreted in a modern day context. No one has the right to decide who is better than the other- that is dangerous. And please realise that I’m not interested in having anyone salvage my soul. I’m very happy with myself and the very moral life I live. Please don’t put up another post preaching anonymously.
“I live my life in line with Islamic principles interpreted in a modern day context.”
‘My’ customized translation is: Have pork/wine and sleep around. Now that’s what I call a modern contextual interpretation by ‘englightened’ middle aged youth.
A BIG thanks to fucking Ghamidi. This is what he’s doing. Now the whole million+ youth is set to interpret islam on their own like jews & christians.
btw you’re 100% wahabi yourself if you authentically follow Quran and Hadith and yet don’t deviate from both.
I never meant to question you, your family or parenting offered to you. I questioned in general. Nor did Ihad any right to do so in the first place.
You don’t even know me! That’s very judgmental of you. I don’t even eat meat! And had you been reading my blog before, you would know I don’t drink and I hate how much people drink in Pakistan. It’s truly disgusting. And I have a RIGHT to interpret MY religious texts. The people who have been interpreting them have done a terrible job. Can anyone explain why it’s impossible to revoke the Hudood Ordinance? Isn’t it, by definition, totally against the Islamic principals. A woman who has been raped DOES NOT have to prove it. Here, we throw her in jail and let her rot to death. So, for those who say I don’t, then please realise I’m not interested in your vested interest. I am not interested in letting misogynists hijack the religion and interpret it as they please. The reason why I feel I can even criticise Wahabi Islam in the first place is because my grandfather was Wahabi, so I do know, very well, what the difference is. I come from a Wahabi, Sunni and Sufi background.
If you want to know what I agree with, then before commenting and cussing, I would strongly suggest you read Fatima Mernissi, Asma Barlas, Amina Wadud etc. There’s an amazing new book out by a Pakistani woman as well on the early Muslim women. Sadly, it hasn’t been published here yet, but will be soon. I suggest you read those. That is my perspective and I have right to it. The come back and argue. Please don’t assume you know what I know or don’t know. I am an irritating information junkie. Before I do ANYTHING, or before I form any opinion, I always do my research. And since I’m a college teacher, I have access to the most reliable journals etc. so I’m not just randomly googling blogs etc.
I’d definitely go through these authors if I get hold of some ebooks as I doubt I can find the original in here as I’m 10,000 miles apart from where you’re breathing right now.
One last favour; Can you please tell me why wahabism is not good or ‘perceived’ to be extreme? So far, I couldn’t find a single contradiction in their texts, believes and principals to what I had perceived them to be like in retrospect.
I have been asking people opposing this sect but nobody was able to give me some solid reasoning. They just know they are bad but nobody knows how are they bad? I couldn’t find an answer as of yet. Hopefully if you could tell me?? But if you are willing to, then do it without quoting the practicing followers as usually they are deviated as per their own agendas and I personally don’t judge in general based on small sample (because sample in statistics are usually chosen he odd ones). So if you could throw a bit of light on their principals misaligned with the core value and principals? That would be a great help for my comprehension.
Lastly, those very ‘reliable’ journals are not descended upon earth from Jupiter or Mars. They are authored by very individuals with same IQ as we posses. If something is printed by a publisher on a hard copy and available on book stores doesn’t imply they are authentic. That’s no 1 obnoxiousness when people argue on knowledge acquired by some ‘authored’ (read edited) texts, journals, books or blogs.
Those very journals are authored by ‘experts’ in propaganda. [All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.
Adolf Hitler] And it’s quiet normal for us to fall for some or most of it and construct our opinions.
Sorry for messing up your blog entry but I really am enjoying interacting and exchanging views. I might learn something off you at the end of the day. I’m also repentant for my anonymity as I really am nobody. Just an astray visitor. :} Nor do we know each other but yes I went to that fun land beneath polka parlour about 2+ decades ago.
Please I really think you need critical thinking classes. I cannot have a battle of the wits with the witless. It is not possible. The only reason why I’ve approved this comment is because of your conspiracy theory based comment on how everything you don’t agree with is propaganda. I am not enjoying this. This is my last reply.
I can’t respond to John’s venomous drivel on facebook, and there’s already far too much over here for me to go through point by point. So I’ll content myself with first replying to one of your comments on something I said.
You wrote: “Well…You wanted to restore Pakistan’s judiciary, Nabiha. Didn’t you research who or what it was made up of first and whether they were proponents of normative, secular jurisprudence or fikh?
A always, be careful what you wish and strive for; victory can be the worse outcome.”
To that I say: “Not when the alternative is an American funded tinpot dictator who was also quite content to ban blogspot and Youtube when they threatened him. Your half baked, imperialist understanding of politics here amuses me.”
But then, Nabiha, why should we be surprised? He’s only repeating what he’s said before: He (because apparently he’s a “true” American and not a “dirty traitor” that consorts and sympathizes with filth like us) is at war with Us (“Us” being every Muslim or hell, everyone with a Muslim-sounding name since, you know, we’re all part of one, gigantic, homogenous, empire of evil that’s out to take away his precious freedoms).
He also loves referring to himself as being from the “Civilized World”, and refers to us as “Vermin”. There’s no reasoning with someone this deranged- not unless you’re face to face with him, where he can’t hide behind his computer.
But thank you for allowing his comments to be posted. Just as we Pakistanis are aware of the poison within our own society, so must other Americans be made aware of the poison within theirs.
Nabila is working for Mossad, trained by RAW and directed by CIA.
Harvester of Sorrow, you are right. All printed material whose source is not Allah (swt) is unreliable. In fact, since you wrote that very argument, by this logic, your argument is ALSO unreliable. And so is this. So let’s forget about it all and just read Quran. Thenks.
I’m also working for an intergalactic federation of aliens bent on taking over the world. They are trained in another dimension. I often get trained in deep space which I reach through worm holes. May as well add more and more to your wonderful conspiracy theories!
Excellent point SAR: “since you wrote that very argument, by this logic, your argument is ALSO unreliable.”
Great article, plz write regularly (at least one per month)…best wishes, not only pakistan.. all the world needs people like u.
I love the “without the freedom to offend, free speech ceases to exist” quote. Very true.
Maybe you should give conspiracy theorists some benefit of (their)doubt.. What the “rest of us” call conspiracies, are very much facts that a Muslim is supposed to expect anyway .. i.e. if you “interpret” the texts in a certain way.. or to put it more accurately, “refrain” from interpreting them at all.. and blindly follow them to the letter..
And we must not undermine people’s right to interpret texts on the basis of their understanding of the environment they live in..
critical thinking is dangerous for people who are weak as a group.. supporting each other blindly and conforming to a defensive mentality is probably at some stage the best strategy for survival..
now i don’t mean that our weakness is real.. its almost totally delusional.. but if it is for REAL that the whole “satanic” world is out to crush us, we the purest of faith, it is only reasonable to not think critically and rather gear up to defend yourself..
explaining to an ostrich that “you are acting like an ostrich, for God’s sake!” won’t solve the problem.. the only response u will get is blinkers.. if u r respected.. or will be laughed at.. if ur not.. and rightly so.. a real ostrich, or someone delusional of being one, must do so..
Regarding the facebook ban, I’ve come across “proofs” from my religious friends of how it was the Prophet’s “wise strategy” to be humble and polite to the old woman at the beginning of Islam, while sanctioning killing of people who verbally abused him when he was in power.. and its their right to believe in it.. and if you question such thinking critically, you would shake the very foundation of your beliefs.. that’s not for the light-hearted.. even brilliant scientists have gone mad or committed suicides when they came across discoveries that they could not accept..
anyway here’s one such compendium of hadiths.. http://www.ahlehadith.com/mazameendetailcfc0.php?mid=184&cid=38
(sorry if this got submitted multiple times, as apparently I’m having some problem submitting this, so I just tried it a couple of times)
Yet another apologist with pathetic excuses… I refuse to indulge any BS about critical thinking being “dangerous.” That is way too dictatorial for me to even bother with.
dictatorial? strange..
I was trying to point you towards a more understanding approach. the absolute opposite of being “dictatorial”..
Ours is a society that is sh*t scared of “satan”.. in all its forms.. whether personal.. or in the form of whole nations..
.. and not because they are stupid.. but because its all “there in the hadith”.. as is commonly claimed, and proved..
and if you simply are an islamic reformist.. trying to be critical of the “other” group but not your own.. then this is probably just an age old battle between the “two of you” .. and i’m sorry to interfere..